RND wrote:

Quote: That is to say, He was referring to the righteous, obedient agnels of God, who dwell in heaven! He was not talking about the wicked, unrighteous angels who rebelled against God -- the "fallen angels" of Satan, who left heaven to come to the earth, at all! If angels can appear in human form, and look just like a human being, in all respects, then it would seem a small thing that they would also be able to perform as a human being, while in the flesh! And the seed of their copulation would be able to join with the ovum of a woman, and produce a child! Did this really happen? Is that to say then that only wicked angels of God come to earth in the form of man and procreate? What about the "good" and "righteous" angels that, according to Paul, we encounter? Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Would Paul tells us this if he knew that the angels we would be encountered by be "evil?" Hardly. There is zero Biblical evidence that angels can or ever have procreated. None. But assuming for just second that it happened at one time, in Genesis 6, angels mating with women, which one of Noah's children, or their wife's, or Noah's wife, brought this seed forward past the flood? 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Answer? None. The following is from: Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! If there is one idea from some Christian circles which has always puzzled me, much of the Church, it is the idea that when Genesis chapter 6 speaks about the Sons of God taking wives of the daughters of men, it was somehow talking about angels, or heavenly beings mating with human women. It amazes me that not only is such an idea put forth by theologians, but that it is also unequivocally accepted by many in the Church. In this brief study, we will take a look at what God says, and the Biblical definition of these terms. Because rather than come up with our own private interpretations of scripture, it is incumbent upon all of us to study the scriptures carefully and let God's Word itself tell us what is in view. Comparing spiritual things with Spiritual things, God reveals the truth of the passages in question. Genesis 6:1 * "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the Sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose". The first question is, who are the Sons of God? Not who does this Theologian say the Sons of God are, or who we might think they are, but what do we find out about the term when we search scripture. The only place to find the answer to the question of who the Sons of God are, is to let God tell us. And He does tell us very Clearly! John 1:12 * "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believeth on His name." This gives us scriptural warrant to say the Sons of God are believers. The overwhelming majority of uses of the phrase unquestionably refer to believers, and those few which are questionable, when studied carefully we see they are believers also. By contrast, there is no authoritative use of the term "Sons of God" for Angels. Why then should we listen to the assumptions of man, when we have the Word of God. All believers are spoken of as the Sons or Children of God. This is the term He has signified to identify those being born from above into adoption of Children. Angels don't qualify. It is by the blood of Christ that we become Sons of God. Romans 8:14 * "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are Sons of God." 1st John 3:1 * Behold, what manner of Love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the Sons of God:..." And so looking all through the scriptures, we see over and over again, that those who are believers, God assigns the title, Sons of God. There really is no mystery in Genesis chapter 6 except the one that some people seek to create for their own purposes. These Sons of God were the Children of God (believers) of that day. God is a Father to all Believers. This is why He called Israel His son. It represented (was a type of) the body of Christ. Christ is His son Israel! One, I suppose, could take the word of a man, but I for one would rather take the Word of God in such matters...it never fails.

so in Job when it says that the "son's of God presented themselves" it is talking about human men?

	Quote:
	By contrast, there is no authoritative use of the term "Sons of God" for Angels.

This is patently dishonest or the man has never read Job, i don't buy this guy's POV. there are two very different ways that the OT and the NT use the same expression translated into English.

Hey dear brother Goober...
I am not into arguing over this topic but I will back RND's stand on this, and to me it makes more sense and is biblical.It must also be remembered that in Hebrew poetry intelligence, personality, and feelings are often described to objects or concepts that do not normally have these attributes.(Judges 9:8-15).
I for one do not profess to hold all the answers. We are forever learning......
It is not worth going around and around in circles over these issues. It is far better to draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.(James 4:8). He will lead us unto all understanding and sometimes in His own timing.
We may never come to the full conclusion of certain whole matters until we see our Saviour face to face and until we reach heaven.
Jesus is Coming soon!!!!!!!!! and we should constantly look forward more to that day!
He has not come yet as He wants everyone to be saved if it were possible...God willing we all reach our destination .

God bless.....

The last point I would make is simply this, it takes more to "read into something" in Scripture than it simply does to read it and understand it at face value. Take the phrase son's of God, which has been suggested that the term only refers to angels in scripture.

In the OT, the Hebrew word for son's in this case is ben, Strongs# 1121. Nowhere in it's usage in the original book Strong's which I have can one find the usage as referring to angels or Heavenly messangers. Only in the online version can one find any reference to this. I suspect that is to "firm up" man's interpretation of what I believe is a badly misunderstood and
poorly interpreted phrase. The online version does this constantly. The meaning of certain words online differs greatly from the original interpretation and meaning of words in the original Strongs to the point that I rarely refer to the online version.

Bottom line is this: is this or is this not a salvation issue? To the point that Christians are counselled to be wary of old wife's fables and lurid stories I would simply suggest that it seems completely beyond the character and desire of God for angels to mate with humans.

Lastly, common sense has to prevail in some manner.

It has been further suggested that all angels are male. I find this highly likely myself. Therefore does it seem sensical that God would create angels with sexual organs if they are all male? Would there be a need to procreate for the angels then if the are all male? Does simple logic allow for a contrary point of view? Considering the admonishment in scripture regarding same gender fornication does in seem logical that God created an all boys club of angels that burned in there desire to engage human women? That would point to the supposition that God created things imperfectly as opposed to creating things with free will and the ability to make choices based on love.

Forget-me-Not wrote:

Hey dear brother Goober... I am not into arguing over this topic but I will back RND's stand on this, and to me it makes more sense and is biblical.It must also be remembered that in Hebrew poetry intelligence, personality, and feelings are often described to objects or concepts that do not normally have these attributes.(Judges 9:8-15). I for one do not profess to hold all the answers. We are forever learning...... It is not worth going around and around in circles over these issues. It is far better to draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.(James 4:8). He will lead us unto all understanding and sometimes in His own timing. We may never come to the full conclusion of certain whole matters until we see our Saviour face to face and until we reach heaven. Jesus is Coming soon!!!!!!!!! and we should constantly look forward more to that day! He has not come yet as He wants everyone to be saved if it were possible...God willing we all reach our destination . God bless.....

I agree, no NON-salvation issue is worth messing up a relationship over. I really enjoy listening to other peoples take on what a passage is saying because that allows me to learn much. the more i learn the more i realize that there is MUCH MUCH more to learn. I am looking forward to the day He does return and consider it a blessing to be watching scripture being fulfilled; it is so awesome to read a passage and then go, "that is what is happening now!"

It is such a joy to have you here. God bless and Godspeed.

RND wrote:

The last point I would make is simply this, it takes more to "read into something" in Scripture than it simply does to read it and understand it at face value. Take the phrase son's of God, which has been suggested that the term only refers to angels in scripture. In the OT, the Hebrew word for son's in this case is ben, Strongs# 1121. Nowhere in it's usage in the original book Strong's which I have can one find the usage as referring to angels or Heavenly messangers. Only in the online version can one find any reference to this. I suspect that is to "firm up" man's interpretation of what I believe is a badly misunderstood and poorly interpreted phrase. The online version does this constantly. The meaning of certain words online differs greatly from the original interpretation and meaning of words in the original Strongs to the point that I rarely refer to the online version. Bottom line is this: is this or is this not a salvation issue? To the point that Christians are counselled to be wary of old wife's fables and lurid stories I would simply suggest that it seems completely beyond the character and desire of God for angels to mate with humans. Lastly, common sense has to prevail in some manner. It has been further suggested that all angels are male. I find this highly likely myself. Therefore does it seem sensical that God would create angels with sexual organs if they are all male? Would there be a need to procreate for the angels then if the are all male? Does simple logic allow for a contrary point of view? Considering the admonishment in scripture regarding same gender fornication does in seem logical that God created an all boys club of angels that burned in there desire to engage human women? That would point to the supposition that God created things imperfectly as opposed to creating things with free will and the ability to make choices based on love.

The Father has been 6 thousand years in revealing His plan and still it is not all revealed. I would never be so presumptuous as to think that i've got it all figured out and this is one of those areas that there is just too little info to reach a 100% scripturally based conclusion that is 100% accurate. Paul said it so well;

Quote:

I Corinthians 13: 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

unless there is some new information; i'm pretty much done with this thread and thank God for His mercy that is renewed each morning. There has been controversy over this passage since it was written and i can respect and accept your having a different POV on this brother.

God bless and Godspeed.

Goober_JIL wrote:

Forget-me-Not wrote: Hey dear brother Goober... I am not into arguing over this topic but I will back RND's stand on this, and to me it makes more sense and is biblical.It must also be remembered that in Hebrew poetry intelligence, personality, and feelings are often described to objects or concepts that do not normally have these attributes.(Judges 9:8-15). I for one do not profess to hold all the answers. We are forever learning...... It is not worth going around and around in circles over these issues. It is far better to draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.(James 4:8). He will lead us unto all understanding and sometimes in His own timing. We may never come to the full conclusion of certain whole matters until we see our Saviour face to face and until we reach heaven. Jesus is Coming soon!!!!!!!!! and we should constantly look forward more to that day! He has not come yet as He wants everyone to be saved if it were possible...God willing we all reach our destination . God bless..... I agree, no NON-salvation issue is worth messing up a relationship over. I really enjoy listening to other peoples take on what a passage is saying because that allows me to learn much. the more i learn the more i realize that there is MUCH MUCH more to learn. I am looking forward to the day He does return and consider it a blessing to be watching scripture being fulfilled; it is so awesome to read a passage and then go, "that is what is happening now!" It is such a joy to have you here. God bless and Godspeed.

Oh what a pity there are not more Goobers around the Group forums that have your good kind of good christian learning type of attitude!

God bless you too brother!

No matter what age we are...we will never stop learning....

remember, us goobers are packed in boxes that packed in cases and the cases are stacked on pallets!

a few of us manage to escape before we're eaten!

	Goober_JIL wrote:
	remember, us goobers are packed in boxes that packed in cases and the cases are stacked on pallets! a few of us manage to escape before we're eaten!

Hey Goober...The Kiwi is estatic with joy to know that you escaped before being eaten!



Gotta have some Goobers left standing.......

RND quoted...

	Quote:
	The last point I would make is simply this, it takes more to "read into something" in Scripture than it simply does to read it and understand it at face value.

I totally agree with that statement you made brother RND!

But what concerns me more is Your start out point..

	Quote:
	.The last point I would make is simply this,

I do pray and hope that that is not the last point you make in Goober's website. That would be devastating if that was the case. We are all searching for the Truth and we need you brother to contribute. You give us much food for thought. Even though I have been residing in my PEW at my church for over 30-100 odd years(I won't reveal my age) ...
YOU RND are one character that I have learn a lot from.Ironic it may sound...but that is the case!! You help me get into further study! Besides that ..I for one would miss you and your great imput. I have to go to work for a few days...and hopefully in between you post away.
At some stage..I am hoping you will get into DANIEL and REVELATION....

God blesses you brother.

	Forget-me-Not wrote:
	I do pray and hope that that is not the last point you make in Goober's website. That would be devastating if that was the case. We are all searching for the Truth and we need you brother to contribute. You give us much food for thought.

Sometimes the Lord answers prayer quickly! Forget-me-Not, I was replying in that this would be my last reply just to this particular topic! We can't really hash it out anymore than it's been hashed! So no need to worry, I will continue to visit Goober's thread and post on various topics. Praise the Lord and thanks to Him that you find I contribute to His mission. I have learned after many years of Biblical tail chasing that logic and simplicity rule the day....and the Word of God.

Good to hear you'll stick around RND, you have much to share. I also agree that this topic has been hashed enough.